TRYOUTS 2018

Discussion in 'NorCal Scene' started by Bulldog, Apr 2, 2018.

  1. Bulldog

    Bulldog Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +7 / 1 / -0
    It will be interesting at tryouts this year with the new tryout window. It will be difficult this time around for families to to shop around and for clubs get a jump start on other clubs.
  2. sidelinemom

    sidelinemom New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2016
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Gender:
    Female
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    Other than tryouts happening in a different month, how are they different?
    • Agree Agree x 2
  3. Defendthatgoal

    Defendthatgoal Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2015
    Messages:
    137
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +30 / 3 / -5
    Can't be any worse than the age change when it went to calendar year
  4. beechwood

    beechwood New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2015
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0
    From what I've observed in the past seasons (at least in the South Bay), parents/players/coaches don't care about tryout windows. Players participate in training sessions with their prospective teams and then go from there. They may join that new team during the winter break or postpone till summer. This of course is not what NorCal has mandated but it is what it is.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. i_am_taxed

    i_am_taxed Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2017
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +16 / 1 / -0
    You are not supposed to practice with another team or attend any session that is used for "player selection" according to the new NorCal's rule. Outside the tryout window, you have to obtain permission from current club's DOC for it.

    However, there is nothing stopping you from participating another club's training session as long as it's not for player selection at the moment, I guess. I don't see how NorCal would be able to enforce this rule.
  6. psyclone

    psyclone Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2014
    Messages:
    527
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +222 / 3 / -4
    Norcal can't enforce that rule.

    You'll notice that the penalties are all on the clubs, not on the players. And what DOC is going to say no?

    The clubs don't own the players, and the one thing US Soccer has right is that they don't allow them to.
  7. MrSmith

    MrSmith Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2017
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +20 / 0 / -3
    NorCal is really pushing clubs to not “tryout/evaluate/sign” players outside tryouts windows because of all the issues discussed at length on the forums.

    To this end to train/tryout/etc for a different NorCal club a player must have permission of curent DOC or the club they are trying out for can get in serious trouble with NorCal.. thus clubs should not be trying out players outside a tryout window with the players current doc approval so they avoid NorCal trouble.

    But. So what does they mean for players who want to move or going to DA programs???

    As has been indicated the club nor NorCal owns a player. NorCal makes rules to encourage club fair play but a player can always clearly quit their current club and then tryout. This is an obvious risk as if they do not make it they might be stuck. They would need to be clear about quitting prior to contacting another club as the club they want to play for will want to avoid NorCal issues.
    I personally might not recommend this unless a player is absolutely sure on a move as it would likely burn bridges and may not be needed if one has the patience to wait to may and of course is risky.

    What about US Soccer? They have been clear that NorCal policy does apply to players moving to DA teams. But NorCal in turn has basically said if clubs have NorCal teams along with DA teams they will still punish your club. Not sure I agree with norcal’s heavy handed stance here but I see where it is coming from some clubs will have DA tryouts to avoid NorCal rules while really looking to sign players to non-DA teams.

    But...

    The nice thing is the tryout window is coming up, every club will be holding tryouts in the same window and you can take your child to any tryout, NorCal and us soccer agree on this. Should be no mystery every club in northern CA will be having tryouts for every team so look up the club then find their tryout window and own your child’s direction, no one should say you can’t.

    I would suggest parents should be careful of clubs making them sign to hold a spot before tryouts as this is effectively a simple ploy to get players to not look around. Clubs that put repercussions on trying out in tryout windows, to me, likely have something to hide and should be avoided. Signing up because on can prior to tryouts seems fine but putting big strings on the signing seems wrong. NorCal code of ethics says clubs cannot hold players accountable for services not rendered (no one should have to pay a year in advance etc, our current club plays monthly and if a player leaves or joins prorated the fees, paying a year in advance to hold a spot or forcing one to pay to leave is just wrong).

    * disclosure... our family has changed clubs 3 times total.... after first year of club soccer, before the season.. the outgoing club was personally super nasty but did nothing to prevent a move. Next was no issue also between seasons, club was good with player pursuing opportunities. Third was based on tryout in tryout window, old club’s coach was indignant about player going to a tryout, which told us immediately that that team and coach was not a good place to be. Very happy with current club.

    Overall we have pursed the best coaching and training in all our moves. Measuring with the thought... between two teams... if one played on each for a year, which team would be harder to change to... if after playing on team A for a year one would one expect it to be harder than it currently is make team B, if so then that is likely the wrong direction. Obviously a judgment call but provides a good way to think about level of training and play required by and provided by each program. (Maybe more technically figure out how steep the technical training curve is and find the steepest you child can keep up with and have fun at the same time, assuming the goal is to play the best soccer possible in the best program, if your child’s key important items are different then again assess the two or more clubs honestly by how each fulfills what you are looking for)

    My... well... 10 cents

    M Smith
  8. dk_b

    dk_b Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2014
    Messages:
    1,328
    Likes Received:
    39
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +541 / 2 / -0
    If a parent ever pushes to have a player move outside of a window, I am confident the parent will win. However, unless the kid is extremely unhappy with his/her current team (extremely - not just because of better opportunities but something deeper), I really question the ethics of the parent. Obviously our primary responsibility is to our own child/ren but when a parent agrees to have his/her kid play on a team for a specific period of time, that is a commitment not just to the club but to each and every kid on that team. I have been involved in discussions where someone wanted to leave mid-stream and the argument is always, "don't punish the kid" - well, an entire roster is being negatively impacted (or potentially so) when a player leaves. The issue is always more complex than one single kid and two specific clubs.

    I am respectful of the tryout windows and when my kid moved clubs, we honored those (even back then when her current club held tryouts about 3 weeks after her old club - we told the person who would have been her coach that she was going to be checking out another club so he could make roster decisions with that in mind). If my other kids were ever to move, we'd do the same unless they were so unhappy to be considering giving up the sport (in which case, it would not come as a surprise to their current club as I'd have gotten them involved). As I said above, our primary responsibilities ARE to our own child(ren) but part of that is teaching them to honor their commitments. No player is going to lose her national team slot or college scholarship because she waited until May to move to her new U14 team.
  9. MrSmith

    MrSmith Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2017
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +20 / 0 / -3
    I think (no facts, completely my opinion) that this maybe the most interesting tryout season in recent history...

    - All clubs (including DA effectively based on norcal stance) have tryouts in the same window, so parents can go to any club and a know when the tryout window is (very easy for folks who do not live and breathe soccer, unlike the folks on this board)

    - Norcal has effectively said (though one can read the statement in a few ways but it seems reasonably plain), that players can tryout for any club during the window without issues (or repercussion). This really puts pressure on the clubs to allow players to try out and not be negative or nasty about a player/family looking around at other programs*

    - Since this is the only tryout window and Norcal makes it harder for moves during the rest of the year parents may feel the need to really visit a number of clubs as this is their "window" to move or look around without extraordinary efforts later in the year.

    So I would hope families understand the opportunity and investigate their options, even if they end up where they started, there should be no penalty (well I should emphasize "should" as I know there are coaches who will pre-empt the window and say a player is being disloyal if they look anywhere else.). There are few programs in the area, in my opinion, that are so amazing that it is not worth at least a thought thinking about different options.

    * hopefully this means programs understand that they are being compared and they need to do their best to build a good program.

    Last note... Norcal detail on recruiting ethics is interesting, it clearly states that clubs cannot contact players outside the tryout window (which I thought was a given) but by explaining it that way it also pretty clearly opens up the counter reading which says now with the window clubs can contact players directly during the window (otherwise the statement would have been always not just limited to the window). I think a number of folks who may actually read their email will (likely correctly) understand that coaches can reach out to key players at other clubs during the tryout window.

    Lastly... this is so tame compared to Texas where opposing coaches will talk to other team's players on the field after a game and ask them to come to their club. Definitely the wild west for club soccer recruiting.

    Just my two cents...

    M. Smith
  10. Multivitamin

    Multivitamin New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2018
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Forums around the country are verifying that these clubs below are leaving GDA.
    These are high level clubs with multiple national titles and National players.
    There is more but these have let it be known as of today!

    PDA
    ECLIPSE
    FC STARS
    HAWKS
    FC PREMIER

    upload_2018-4-17_16-37-15.png
  11. All for One

    All for One Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2014
    Messages:
    208
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +50 / 0 / -0
    What's the problem with letting kids leave a club whenever they want to, provided their fees are paid up? These restrictive movement rules are only there to protect clubs, not the players...
  12. MrSmith

    MrSmith Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2017
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +20 / 0 / -3
    The problem is the clubs... go down to Texas, or not quite as bad, SoCal. Parents we know who moved from here say Texas is truly the Wild West with coaches approaching opposing players on the field right after games to try to lure them to their clubs.

    While I am not sure the current limits are this best it seems like better than Wild West mode. Basically the rules prevent clubs talking to players without asking first. If the current club does not want the player to talk to the new club they can say no. The player can then of course leave the current club if they want a change. Also dissuades players from just jumping club to club during the season and disrupting teams (though still can if the want)

    Now with a single tryout window everyone should realize it is the right time to look at options... staying where they are (all good) go to club tryouts (all good) move teams or clubs (also all good).

    Again not sure it is best but seems like in the end the players can do what they really want and the clubs are restricted and must effectively maintain a team throughout a year... no bringing in replacement players every week. There can be small changes but not likely constant ones.

    I am most concerned (maybe the wrong word) by clubs and coaches who are making players resign prior to the window in order to “save their spot” or telling them they cannot try out or they are in trouble if they do... my daughter went through that and it sucked for a coach to be that personally manipulative and nasty, which was in the end was a huge factor in her final choice.

    My personal 2 cents
  13. psyclone

    psyclone Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2014
    Messages:
    527
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +222 / 3 / -4
    Clubs don't own players and there should be no restriction on what players can do coming from either the club or the league.

    Requiring permission to look at other teams is 100% ridiculous.

    I do support a league not allowing the club to make roster changes mid-season. But if a kid wants to play for a club in a different rostering situation (such as a tournament), then that is between them and the team they want to join.

    Clubs. Don't. Own. Players.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. beechwood

    beechwood New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2015
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0
    I can see the merits of a single tryout window but IMO that is primarily for the clubs' interests and not necessarily the players'. I also understand that switching clubs mid-season can be disruptive to the teams. However, if a player is in a bad situation with his/her current team/club (whatever that may be), waiting for the next tryout window may not be acceptable. Perhaps winter tryouts is a compromise? For some players even that is still not doable. I do agree with the posters above, clubs don't own players.
  15. MrSmith

    MrSmith Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2017
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +20 / 0 / -3
    I did not think were talking about tournaments (at least that is what I thought based on this being the tryouts thread).

    I do think it is silly for clubs to not allow players to play tournaments, if they request it, where they would like (assuming reasonably their current team did not have an event). Note, a number of clubs use guest playing as a way to introduce players to their team and have a conversation about moving clubs, heck the coaches even get a game based tryout for the player all in guise of helping with a tournament. Hard to tell the difference between helping out some friends/getting some extra game time and recruiting driven guest play. I suspect there is no completely right answer. Normally clubs we have been associated with were okay with players guest playing as long as they let the coaches know.

    I believe based on the wording of the most recent tryout letter, from Norcal to clubs, this tryout window should be broadly open to players trying out anywhere including clubs communicating with players directly without needing any permissions (that is the way I read it). It just sets limits on the time when this happens.

    Of course players CAN move always, if players wants to move, neither NorCal nor US Club prevent them from moving. US Club will force a club to release a player in almost all cases, even if money is owed. So clubs never own players but there is a framework for player movement and rules around communication outside the tryout window. Again, players can always move, always, it is up to their current club whether to be helpful or nasty when it comes to them wanting to look around. I suspect the ones who are nasty about it are not the places you might want to be.
    I do not say it is the best plan but it is likely better then a free for all (which seems to favor aggressive coaches). Given that all parts of Norcal except NPL have two (or three) distinct seasons (for NPL a team signs up for a year of NPL but still plays 2 seasons) seems 2 tryout windows would be a better fit and easier for parents.

    Will be very interesting to see how this single tryout window works... I am really concerned that parents who are not crazy soccer heads like folks on this board will not understand the window and what happens after the window closes. Which I think is what folks on the board are thinking about... What happens in July when the "Miller's" realized they missed the ONLY tryout window, what do they do?

    M Smith
  16. TJsoccer

    TJsoccer Active Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2014
    Messages:
    997
    Likes Received:
    141
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Ratings:
    +430 / 8 / -5
    I'm not 100% following this. What is the difference in this year as compared to prior years? Is it just that Norcal is dictating the tryout window to the Regions now? In prior years, the windows were setup by the RAC's I think...and they were all over the map. Isn't that right?

    In Region 6, there has always been one tryout window per age group per year. All clubs host tryouts are on the same day for the same age groups.

    The main difference this year for Region 6 is that there is 2 total tryout windows...one for U14 and lower, and one (a few weeks later) for U15 and up. In past years, there were 3 tryout windows...one end of Jan (littles), one end of Feb (mid aged), and one in May (olders). The biggest challenge is that the clubs are going to have to manage a ton of kids for the U14 and lower tryouts.

    I'm thinking about showing up to sell florescent green shirts and wristbands to the ulittle parents. Tell them, "of course its not necessary...its only for the parents that want their kids to be noticed by the coaches. Do you see how many kids are out there?"

    Have you guys noticed that it is much harder to pick out a good coach now? You used to be able to tell by the quality and style of their tracksuit. Now, all of the tracksuits look the same....they are all tight fitting around the ankle. Used to be only the good coaches had those kind...with the little zipper. Maybe I'll now have to find a coach that values "development over winning", one that teaches a "possession oriented style", but still understands "attacking when opportunity exists". A coach that places a high value on "effort and teamwork" and has a "love of the game" that started when they were very young. Soccer coach bios are so awesome.
    • Funny Funny x 1
  17. i_am_taxed

    i_am_taxed Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2017
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +16 / 1 / -0
    In the past, you could simply ask a coach from another club to attend their practices. No coach would say no.
    After a few sessions, there would be a mutual decision if your kid is a good fit for the new team.

    That process is lost now with the tryout window. Any session for player selection purpose is defined as recruiting and the club punished by NorCal.

    I believe the motivation was to lock-in players for the State Cup. With the winter tryout, players switched clubs and teams were disturbed.

    I still can't see how NorCal would enforce this. As beachwood noted above, I think kids are still attending another club's practices.
  18. Farolito61

    Farolito61 New Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2017
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0
    Non of the rules apply to DA. No matter what NorCal says.
    Only rule for Academy is from DA to DA.
    NorCal has guidelines for its members but I doubt anything can really be enforced. Players don’t belong to the clubs.
    I sent an email about my son 5 years ago to US Club and 2 days later he was released even though a NorCal club told him he could not leave. He was then free.
  19. dk_b

    dk_b Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2014
    Messages:
    1,328
    Likes Received:
    39
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +541 / 2 / -0
    Clubs don’t own players. It is difficult to enforce the recruiting rules and the only way is to sanction the clubs (you can’t fine the player). And our primary responsibility is to our own kids.

    That said, unless my kid were miserable - absolutely miserable (wanting to give up the sport) - we are going to have a large lesson about honoring commitments even if a “better” club (better because of a better fit or better training or more exposure) wants her to transfer mid-stream. My kid commits to herself, to the club and to her teammates. Should she leave mid-stream, she’s giving a big middle finger to her teammates. I would not expect NorCal to be able to do much to keep her with her club but I also would not expect the parents of her former players to not call me an asshole (or stronger). If it were non-soccer related, I’d expect them to understand but if only for soccer reasons, I’d deserve all the scorn.
  20. i_am_taxed

    i_am_taxed Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2017
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +16 / 1 / -0
    Personally, I rarely see kids changing clubs during the middle of the season.

    I think the issue people have is that NorCal eliminated winter tryout and made it more difficult for a family to move for the spring season.

    If your definition of a season or commitment is a full year, then there is little change. If it was a half year, fall/spring, then definitely it's more difficult.

    The club doesn't own players. If you really need to leave, you still can.

    What I don't like about it is that it prevents parents from evaluating a new club, coach, and teammates in practice sessions. In large tryouts, it's difficult to gauge if your kid is the right fit for the team... and you won't know which team you will be placed and who the coach will be.

    It's designed to discourage from leaving a club.
    • Agree Agree x 1

Share This Page