GDA Subbing Rules

Discussion in 'NorCal Scene' started by FindTheNine?, Jul 25, 2017.

  1. respectthegame

    respectthegame Member

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    So glass half empty = ODP and PDP will get diluted ?
    Or glass half full = Kids that otherwise may gotten overlooked in the incumbent politics will have more opportunities ?

    Fishing a bit here, but deciding whether to do the tryout thing again which in the past has led to disappointments and subsequent ego rebuilding.....
  2. TJsoccer

    TJsoccer Well-Known Member

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    I posted this one before, but figured I'd add it to this thread. Basically, Anson Dorrance is criticizing the substitution rules of the GDA and using the some research that he did. He thinks we mitigate RAE (birth month anomaly) by allowing for free substitutions. Not sure how true it is, but Dorrance has street cred:

    https://www.topdrawersoccer.com/club-soccer-articles/ask-a-coach:-uncs-anson-dorrance_aid42067

    --“If you look at typical rosters on men’s national teams, a lot of the roster is born in the first four months.....almost the entire national team in Germany is born in the first third of the year.

    --A smaller player in other environments who would be pushed off the field playing FIFA rules where you play a kid for 90 minutes, a lot the kids playing 90 minutes are bigger, stronger kids more often than the smaller, weaker kids

    --when you travel in this country (USA), you play more than one game and you allow your coaches to substitute

    --As a result, I was shocked at the number of girls in the U.S. roster that was born in literally the last month.

    --And I attribute that to the American substitution pattern.

    --“I’m really concerned about the direction we’re going in,



    He goes on to further challenge our weird obsession with European soccer:

    -- I don’t have complete buy-in with the fact that we’re going to follow a European best practices idea for players to play one position.

    --“I’m more into developing kids to be universalists, and I’m afraid of specialization. That’s a concern I have. I think, again another direction I’m afraid the DA is going to go in is to make our players specialists.

    --I pity the player who would have to play behind a Michelle Akers. She played at an elite level into her mid-30’s, so if you want to end up starting on the national team and play behind a Michelle Akers, you’re never going to get on the freaking field unless you have the versatility to move.

    And then the shout out to american college soccer as a development platform

    --“The Canadians basically have a tiny player population. They are asked to coach and develop their kids in a frozen wasteland, so it’s not like they have this fabulous nirvana to develop their players in. But here’s one thing the Canadians do; they send their elite players to the American colleges. And because of that, no matter where these Canadian teams end up at a U17 or a U20 level, they catch up with the rest of the world the same way the United States players do after not winning at a U17 level and most recently at a U20 level. They catch up in college.
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  3. psyclone

    psyclone Member

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    I hate the no-reentry substitution rule for youth soccer, and I think the GDA has it totally wrong, but one slight mitigating factor is that GDA also requires every player to start 25% of the time. That means players 13-25 will get more playing time than in a normal no-reentry league.

    Still, its all ridiculous.
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  4. dk_b

    dk_b Well-Known Member

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    @psyclone - more playing time than no playing time but there is nothing stopping a coach from starting a player and subbing for that player in the first minute.

    A rep from Federation who spoke to a group of parents at an NTC session in early spring did say that playing time will be monitored and that coaches/clubs will be spoken to if they start kids but don't offer them meaningful playing time on a consistent basis (esp at showcases). If they follow through on that, the 25% start rule will be substantive.
  5. FindTheNine?

    FindTheNine? Member

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    How do they think they can monitor it? Do the refs keep records of the subs and minutes that USSF will track?

    But even at 25% did the Federation say why they thought players would stick around? I don't see GDA having the prestige like DA to make just being on the team enough. And at twice the travel cost of ecnl (or more) I worry players will quit pretty quickly if they aren't seeing 50% or more.
  6. dk_b

    dk_b Well-Known Member

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    Someone else may have more to add but my recollection is that there will be a GDA representative at EVERY game and that there will be detailed reports on usage. It is not that difficult, really, if they use a 4th official to handle cards. But then someone needs to enter that information, track it, follow-up on irregularities, etc. They made the point - a good one - that something is amiss if a kid is playing 240 mins in a 3-game showcase while another is playing 5 mins. And if that is replicated game after game and showcase after showcase, someone is being overused and someone else is not getting enough.

    I think you have hit on some important points, @FindTheNine? . There is an assumption that it is only a matter of time before GDA is firmly established as the "top league". I have no crystal ball but I could just as easily see it crash in short order since no one is getting college scholarships (or even a roster spot) if they are not being seen - simply being on the roster is not enough. And while there is no guaranteeing rotation in an ECNL game (or NPL game), most coaches seem to play their entire bench for at least some meaningful minutes over the course of an event. Of course, re-entry is permitted so the team is not hung out to dry if a kid is having a bad game . . .
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  7. FindTheNine?

    FindTheNine? Member

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    I think the bigger problem even if DA time is monitored is the inability to play anything else. Ecnl coaches could get playing time to less developed players in NPL. Now those "bubble" players will literally just sit. I can't imagine making those sacrifices and not getting to at least get some minutes in another platform. That's not developing anything at all. I predict these 25 player pools will be 16 player pools before Christmas.
  8. Football4ever

    Football4ever Member

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    On boys side there is one showcase and one playoff. And these playoffs are the big event where you won't see coaches suddenly mix it up.
    Obviously boys side is more established and they do track exact minute sub in and out in official record.
    I agree that DAs with 20 plus deep roster they should allow the non starters to at least guest play or play with their former local club. Training without any matches are even worse than too many meaningless lower level games. Those too many low level games were one of complaints and reasons why DA was formed. I still have not heard a single good argument for at least one re entry substitution other than they want the top players learn to play full minutes
  9. FindTheNine?

    FindTheNine? Member

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    Is there anything to learn in terms of playing full minutes or is it a fitness issue? Trying to get fit in game situations (as in pushing beyond your fitness level in a game as opposed to training your way to fitness) is indicator "A" for ACL tears. It will be a tragedy if their stupid rules end up tearing up the ACLs of their most promising talent. These girls are guinea pigs, and USSF seems to have no reasons for what it's doing. If my kid doesn't play I'm going to be pissed and if my kid gets hurt playing tired because coach can't sub I'm going to be pissed.
  10. psyclone

    psyclone Member

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    Yep. There will be fewer games, but a lot more girls playing tired. At least for my daughter, if she wasn't getting much playing time over the course of a season, but she's played 75 minutes in this game and the coach wants to take her out, she is insisting on staying on the field, and arguing hard about it.

    Even with single reentry, it would have been ok.

    It's a recipe for playing with exhaustion.
  11. LoveSoccer

    LoveSoccer Member

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    One more thing to watch for at Surf, I guess. Surf matters, so it should be a good test case for how GDA teams go about subbing. It isn't even just the "no re-entry" rule as much as the limit on subs overall. I suspect that if one team is dominating, we will see more substitutions and earlier, at least on the dominating team. If the match is competitive, likely less substitutions and later.

    If NorCal GDA is as uneven as many suspect, for stronger teams it will likely be fairly easy to rest stars, spread play (and starts) among players, and generally meet the playing rules in a way that satisfies most players. For showcases and playoffs that will likely be less true. It's also very possible that the rosters on many GDA teams won't be much above the minimum you can play in a game - 16 in the older age groups and 18 in the younger age groups.
  12. ECNL

    ECNL Well-Known Member

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    Us soccer cares little if any kid tears their acl. Their goal is to find the next mia Hamm, win gold medals and world cups. Results fuel their existence and paychecks.
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  13. psyclone

    psyclone Member

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    And that, my friends, is why it is unconscionable that the adults who run clubs and leagues bow down to US Soccer. US Soccer's goals aren't your own.
  14. soccerislife

    soccerislife Active Member

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    After watching that performance vs Australia(0-1 loss), soon US soccer will be saying "We really need GDA in order to prevent those other countries from catching up to us".
  15. ECNL

    ECNL Well-Known Member

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    Lol. BDA has been around for 10 years. Last night I watched the US beat Jamaica 2-1 but it took a late goal by Jason Morris to do so. IF BDA produces players that can barely beat a Jamaican team it's not worth its weight in gold.
    There is no question BDA will always be more funded than GDA. Base in that and the results I am seeing, GDA will almost certainly fair no better. Anyone who tells me different is really looking through rose colored glasses.

    As stated before the issue for us is soccer culture and losing our best athletes to track, basketball, football, lacrosse, baseball, etc.
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  16. TJsoccer

    TJsoccer Well-Known Member

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    The GDA may or may not help us win a world cup or advance women's soccer in this country. But one thing is for certain...they will tell us it was a huge success. Just this year, they announced the end of Project 2010. It was a $50 million dollar soccer residency program that was launched 20 years ago to win the 2010 World Cup. Why did they cancel it? Was it because the 2010 world cup ended 7 years ago...and they completely sucked...not even making it to the quarters? Nope...they cancelled it because it was a huge success!

    https://www.starsandstripesfc.com/u...cludes-youth-residency-program-after-18-years

    The first formal US youth residency program was established in 1999 with the goal of creating a pipeline of young players to the senior Men’s National Team in order to seriously compete to win the World Cup in 2010. That plan, called Project 2010, instituted the first US development residency program in Bradenton, Florida.

    The goals of the program have been met according to US Soccer Federation President Sunil Gulati who said, “One of our main hopes when establishing the U.S. Soccer Residency Program was that at some point advancements in youth player development would make its existence no longer necessary--we believe that point has been reached.”
  17. FindTheNine?

    FindTheNine? Member

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    So USSF started fake news! Sigh. Surf GDA is so crazy expensive (5 nights? Jesus who can afford that) that I hope DA families feel like they got what they paid for. $2,000 worth.
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2017
  18. soccercritique

    soccercritique Member

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    BTW, Burlingame is getting thumped my surf, 11-1 second half
  19. FindTheNine?

    FindTheNine? Member

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    Yikes what age
  20. soccercritique

    soccercritique Member

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    Not sure. 03-04's?

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